Could The Next VW Beetle Be Rear Engined, Based On 911?

"MtrRider Just Wants Doritos" (MtrRider)
10/01/2013 at 02:40 • Filed to: None

The VW Beetle is one of the most iconic cars in the world, known for its unique shape and rear-engined layout. The new Beetle is front engined and front wheel drive, so not unique in any way. The Porsche 911 is one of the most iconic cars in the world, known for its unique shape and rear-engined layout. Sound familiar?

Last year, VW bought Porsche, the only company to soldier on building cars with the engine in the worst possible place. Already, the VW Touareg and Porsche Cayenne are built on the same platform, as are the upcoming Porsche Macan and Audi Q5. If Porsche will build its high-dollar sports cathedrals with VW bones underneath, why doesn't VW base the next Beetle off the 991 chassis? I think they should. It would make people talk about the Beetle again. Who else would like to see a rear engine, flat 4 family car priced in the mid $20,000 range?

DISCUSSION (19)

HammerheadFistpunch > MtrRider Just Wants Doritos
10/01/2013 at 02:43

1. VW knows better than to mess with the 911

2. this current beetle was under study to be rear engine, the economics didn't pan out so it was modular platform all the way.

3. it wouldn't be remotely cost effective to make the beetle and 911 common.

MtrRider Just Wants Doritos > HammerheadFistpunch
10/01/2013 at 02:57

That would have been before VW bought out Porsche. Now they have a platform already developed, and a damn good one. All they would need to do is change the body, put in a 4 cylinder engine and give it a VW interior. The only company I would trust to do this level of badge engineering is VW, and they do a lot of badge engineering.

MtrRider Just Wants Doritos > HammerheadFistpunch
10/01/2013 at 02:58

Double posting now, are we Kinja?

phenotyp > MtrRider Just Wants Doritos
10/01/2013 at 03:35

Never gonna happen.

duurtlang > MtrRider Just Wants Doritos
10/01/2013 at 05:25

the next Beetle off the 991 chassis (...) priced in the mid $20,000 range.

Don't you see the problem here?

MtrRider Just Wants Doritos > duurtlang
10/01/2013 at 05:39

No. Porsche makes obscene profits off the 911. If you strip it down, put in a less powerful engine, cheaper suspension/tires/wheels/brakes and give it a VW badge you would be surprised how cheap they could sell it. No need for contrast stitching on the seatbelts being custom made, so they will save money from making them faster. Most of the price difference between a "normal" car and an expensive one is the cost of exclusivity. Take that away and you have a Volkswagen.

duurtlang > MtrRider Just Wants Doritos
10/01/2013 at 07:10

VW are cost cutters taken to the extreme. Although I'm sure you're right in that it wouldn't cost that much to produce on the 991 platform, it still would be much more expensive to develop/engineer/build than the reskinned Golf it is now. I doubt they're going to be able to recoup those costs.

RMudkips > MtrRider Just Wants Doritos
10/01/2013 at 07:57

That's like, far out, man.

Knowing VW, they'll take an easy modular platform from a Golf over a slightly less easy platform with an engine at the back.

I could see your idea work as a developing country special (super small), but I don't see it happening soon.

themanwithsauce - has as many vehicles as job titles > MtrRider Just Wants Doritos
10/01/2013 at 08:57

So you want to take one of the most over-engineered, best handling chassis in the world and use it for a 4-seat family coupe around 25 grand.......What are you smoking that you think that could possibly happen? Porsche makes the mad bank off of options and accessories. Yes they make a profit on all cars they sell, but the margin grows as options get added. Hell people pay a premium for the GT3 to have LESS features.

Plus the new beetle is FWD to make it an easier to drive vehicle all year round. Hate FWD all you want but it is infinitely more stable than RWD in winter. Oh and the hallmark of the old beetle was simplicity. There is nothing simple about the 911. There is some simplicity on the modern golf/jetta chassis though. So there's two marks in the favor of not using the 911 chassis right there. And this is before you factor in cost.

webmonkees > MtrRider Just Wants Doritos
10/01/2013 at 10:09

Kinja'd!!!

A modern 912, then?

Odds more like 4wd, a crazy motor and body kits that would get them sued if they didn't own Porsche.

MtrRider Just Wants Doritos > themanwithsauce - has as many vehicles as job titles
10/01/2013 at 17:25

It would allow VW to spread the cost of the 991 chassis over many more cars, so they could sell them for less. The idea was not to sell a $25k Porsche, but to adapt the Porsche into a Beetle. If you cheapen the car with smaller engines, cheaper components and took away the Porsche badge premium, I don't think the cost would be that high.

MtrRider Just Wants Doritos > themanwithsauce - has as many vehicles as job titles
10/01/2013 at 17:25

themanwithsauce - has as many vehicles as job titles > MtrRider Just Wants Doritos
10/01/2013 at 17:37

You have vastly oversimplified automotive engineering. Traits like rigidity, strength, and so on rely on many more factors than just the design. The bare bones of a 911 alone cost 15k to buy and make, easy. Figure another 10k for drivetrain and about 5k ish for a basic interior. Follow that up with another 5k for any market specific features needed and various other costs and the bare minimum you could get away with in a 911 would be around 45k. Could you make it for less? Sure. Would it have the same properties? Not at all. Then the economies of scale don't help as much since you no longer have identical designs floating around.

Simply adding cheaper drivetrain and interior components won't get you around the fact that at a sub 40k price point, there are any number of chassis that would make more sense for a beetle. And at 20k? That golf and jetta are looking reeeeealy good for the job.

MtrRider Just Wants Doritos > themanwithsauce - has as many vehicles as job titles
10/01/2013 at 18:06

I am not talking about simply rebadging a 911 into a Beetle, the only shared components would be the basic platform and crash structure. You can change the car, that's why the Beetle doesn't look like a Golf. Remember the Phaeton? A Bentley for a fraction of the cost. A Beetle doesn't need "the same properties" as a 911, and you are vastly underestimating how much of a premium Porsche charges for the badge. Look at the Corvette, is there any real reason the Porsche costs twice as much, is slower, and somehow a better car? No, but GM charges less and sells more Corvettes. The profit margin on luxury cars is huge, and it is just that- profit margin. They charge more to make up for the lower volume (and to keep demand low), but a Beetle would increase that volume so could be sold for less. Plus, the Beetle is made in Mexico, not Germany.

janon999 > MtrRider Just Wants Doritos
02/25/2014 at 22:46

You killed your example with the Vette. Ever owned one, or owned a 911? I've owned both. Spend a week in each objectively and you'd be a liar to say you don't see where the extra money in a 911 goes. I paid $50k for my Vette in 2000 and $75k for a 911 in 2002. The difference in materials and build quality is enormous. And the 911 wasn't "slower" in the real world. It was drivers margins. The cars balance made it more rewarding to drive as well which is huge

The C7 is fantastic, but the 991 ups the 911 game also. The Vette remains a great bargain, but pretending that a 911 is nothing more than paying for a "brand" is a clear sign of a bench racer who has never spent time in either car (or a sign of massive bias). If you want performance only and don't care about materials and build quality differences, or aren't really impacted by driver position, ergonomics, etc, then you just choose "bang for the buck". In this segment purchases are both highly subjective and highly emotional, however, and it isn't an accident that the 911 has that badge power contrary to what the detractors really want to believe.

Also the 911 is always about 50-60% more than a Vette, not double

janon999 > MtrRider Just Wants Doritos
02/25/2014 at 22:50

VW didn't "buy Porsche". The Porsche family controls VW with 51% of the shares. And this ridiculous idea of diluting the 911 was voted down by them a year on from this article and comment stream proving pretty much everyone here who was in favor of the idea wrong.

heavyshell > MtrRider Just Wants Doritos
09/08/2014 at 20:58

I know I'm kinda' late to this party, like, almost a year late but...

I don't think the Beetle could be 911 based, but with the fairly recent revelation that the next gen Boxster is going to be a 4 cyl (And the rumors floating around that VW is spinning the Beetle off into its own sub-brand with a sports car) I could see the two sharing a few components.

Option #1, most likely: VW continues as it has been, building the next generation Beetle on the Golf's chassis.

Option #2, somewhat plausible: Volkswagen builds fourth gen Beetle on Polo chassis, including Polo GTI based model to combat Focus ST and Mini Cooper S. Gives VW a subcompact to slot under Golf and Jetta.

Option #3, insanity: Volkswagen bases the 2019 Beetle on largely Boxster sourced components, 210 HP flat four in performance model, de-tuned version for base. Microbus and Karmann Ghia-esque variants available.

mxypltz > MtrRider Just Wants Doritos
03/26/2015 at 14:46

If Mitsubishi can sell the horrid Mirage for a base price of $12995, VW can get close too! VW needs to bring the VW Beetle back to the basics. Hell, you can get a base level Jetta cheaper than a new Beetle, these days. If VW can scale down the price point of a Jetta from the costly chassis that it was, they can sure come up with something cute, quirky and keep it at their lowest price point offered. Don't put another over-priced iconic shape on yet another off-the-shelf chassis. Hitler demanded an affordable peoples car for the original Beetle and today, we would like the same. Go back to square one with it. Though the development costs would be expensive, the payoff would come in the number of cars sold. Provided it is a hit. Yes, make it rear engine again and yes, maybe use a small gas plant that is only used in European cars. Though you could never meet the current emissions standards by being air-cooled again, a much smaller plant than current offerings or even a really small, torquey diesel might be just the ticket. Maybe even doing the same as Mitsu and developing a three cylinder, if they don't already have it. VW has always relished odd cylinder engines anyway. Be inventive, be creative and ignore the bean counters! Start by looking at the Mini Moke which is a bare bones car you can rent in the Caribbean. Go back to what made the original Beetle an icon in the first place. Low price point, iconic styling, basic amenities, light weight and, of course, build it in Mexico.

DominikMJ > MtrRider Just Wants Doritos
05/21/2015 at 12:45

So, why we don’t make a Passat based on the Bentley Continental GT?

Or a BMW 3 series on base of a Rolls Royce Ghost?

Or a Fiat Punto on base of a Ferrari California?

Or a Fiat 500 out of a Alfa 4C?

C’mon - I am shocked to anyway read some bull like that!

Yes - Porsche does profit, but it still cost a lot of money to build a 911 - a beetle would cost a minimum of 60k - even if cheaper parts were used.

Further - the 911 was never based on a beetle - it was the 356 which succeeded [and bettered in any way] the beetle - long before the beetle was born. Anyway I don’t get it - only because the 911 has a rear-engine set-up, it doesn’t mean, that it is a great idea, to use the same platform.

And yes - Touareg and Cayenne shared the same platform - Q5 and the Macan are also sharing their platform - but these were very similar cars [in size, in their class].

If somebody though would say, that VW supposed to make an attempt to make a good value little sports car on base of the Boxster/Cayman - this would be a far better idea! This was done as 914 [VW-Porsche] - and while the success wasn’t overbearing, the twins were [and are] still quite characterful fun cars!